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1221341914|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover Death of The Conduit? We at WiiHD have made no secret about how much we love The Conduit. We have also done our best to argue against the use of Friend Codes, both here, and in missives sent to the developers. With each day that passes, however, the odds of The Conduit shipping without Friend Codes, as the PSP port Medal of Honor: Heroes 2 has already done, decrease. Today's blow to our hopes and dreams comes from Nintendo Radio. And it's a pretty harsh blow. Below is a transcript of an excerpt of a Nintendo Radio Podcast (Episode 50 58:40ish to 1:00:40ish). Two developers from High Voltage Software participated, Rob Nichols (lead designer) and Tony Mecca (Animator), however, they neglected to to identify themselves so I can't be 100% sure which voice belonged to which developer. Based on the last quote below, I've assigned the associated voice as Rob Nichols, because that just makes the most sense (he's the guy he has to be the most concerned about not pissing off Nintendo), and the other voice to Tony Mecca. But it's just a guess. ----Begin Transcript----
Probably Tony Mecca:
Probably Rob Nichols:
Interviewer: I think Nintendo is the only one who enjoys Friend Codes Probably Rob Nichols:
----End Transcript---- Elsewhere, they confirmed there will be no DLC. Now that doesn't confirm that the game will use Friend Codes. However, it is the most pessimistic outlook on Friend Codes thus far. If you're willing to read between the lines, it's everything BUT a confirmation. They're saying this now so that when they finally confirm it, it won't be as much of a disappointment. Notice also the rather strained excuses for the Friend Code system, and the oft-heard refrain about how closely they are working with Nintendo. That seems to reinforce rumors about Nintendo as a likely publisher. It's still a cool game. It can still succeed. But it's fallen from possibly being the greatest 3rd party game on the system, forever. Now it'll probably be the best game on the system until the next game finds a way to avoid Friend Codes. The Single player obviously won't be affected, and if that's why you're buying the game, there's no cause for discouragement. But the single player campaign on Normal is around 8 hours. How much time could you get from the game on multiplayer? Hundreds of hours. How much fun is sucked out of online play by Friend codes? Tons. We'll doubtless see details about the online system in the near future. As we've explained before, the publisher choice will likely affect the online feature set. So in 2-3 weeks, the full picture will begin to reveal itself. The Conduit Gallery
Nintendo Radio Podcast #50 | Permalink Nintendo Wii DS videogame video games play strategy fps rpg shooter console gaming Conduit Call of Duty Activision EA ubisoft racing action adventure halo gta arcade mario zelda metroid pacman Similar Posts |
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Death of The Conduit?
From this article, it seems as though you are upset, or rather disappointed?
Friend codes will destroy tons of the fun this game could have been with a half-way decent lobby system
WiiHD hasn't been around long, but we've managed to grab links at most of the big gaming and gadget blogs, including Kotaku's Gawker neighbor Gizmodo, but until today we've never gotten a story on Kotaku. It's an honor.
Feel free to kick the tires and criticize the suspension.
I'm pretty sure that HVS knows what you said, and are obviously going to find someway around it or make it for the best, and even with Friend Codes, I think that it is possible to come up with some sort of lobby system.
"…but we're going to make it as streamlined and as fast as."
In general they are thinking for the Hardcore, so I'm sure that they'll come up with something that will please us.
I find your blind faith a little disturbing.
The truth is, as they made it clear in the interview: their hands are tied. If they had it their way, they wouldn't touch the crap with a ten foot pole. They don't have it their way.
As I said elsewhere, streamlining friend codes is like putting lipstick on a pig. Once you're done, it's still a pig.
I understand what you're saying, but as I stated before, they know what the hardcore want.
Now, obviously, they can't avoid FC, as you said "If they had it their way, they wouldn't touch the crap with a ten foot pole." I agree, this is N property and they can't have it their way, but I think that it may be possible for them to find some way to utilize it to make it the best experience using FC as possible.
How is the addition of friend codes the death of the conduit? in every online game I've ever played you don't need them to play random matches, and you only have to input them once(or if it's anything like mkwii, you could just send an invite to people already in your address book)
Thats pretty much what I was trying to get across. Plus or Minus some things.
Just not the ones you think.
The question mark at the end of the title is important. The concluding sentence is as well. I didn't say Friend Codes will be the death of the Conduit.
David wrote: "It's still a cool game. It can still succeed."
Different codes for every game, to be added, you BOTH have to input each other's codes, different people owning different games, random matches typically conceal identities making it harder to get into competitive matches (which is more of an issue in a competitive shooter than in a 4 person fighter or a racer where items are designed to de-competivize), you can't befriend someone you fought in a match and had a great game with, so if you find someone like that, good luck being able to play them again, and finally, there's 16 players in this game. If you want a full game with full features, that's a lot of codes to only enter once. You don't need 15, because the same 15 people aren't always going to be online. You need hundreds.
CLEARLY, Friend Codes are a disadvantage. So the question is, what gain do they bring? They don't, as Nintendo claims, protect kids. Kids get online and spend endless hours trading codes with complete strangers on forums, making pm and instant messaging contacts in an insecure environment that they never would have made were it not for FCs.
So we're inconvenienced in order to actually Endanger kids. There is no upside. There is a pretty disappointing downside of inconvenience for every gamer.
There's already a model for secure fully featured online environments. Online lobbies were perfected a decade ago. Child protection technologies (that actually work) exist for those environments, and they don't require insane amount of work to get into a game and play the FULL version of the online experience for adults who don't have the time or inclination to bypass the Friend Code protections. The MoHH2 lobby system is a little light on features, but it's still light years ahead of MKWii. How far ahead of The Conduit will MoHH2 be? We'll have to wait and see.
But that (how much better will the insignificant PSP port that got virtually no investment or attention from it's publisher be than the core game to end all core games be) isn't the question we should be asking at this point. The Conduit should be allowed by Nintendo to surpass MoHH2 in every way. They've got the money for a network that doesn't suck. They've got the brains to realize they're actually endangering kids. And they've got me and millions of gamers explaining it to them every single time they release a new FC-infested game.
I'm not going to stop criticizing that broken system until it either a) allows an opt-out for adults, b) ceases to exist or c) drives me to buy a system that isn't idiotically inconvenient.
Didn't you read the post above you? you wouldn't have to keep entering codes if every game used a friend code system like that in mario kart wii, you could just send an invite asking if they want you on that game's roster(they are then auto added) plus mkwii also allows random players to be added after a race, I don't see why the same couldn't be done in the conduit.
and there were always adults on websites that talk to children, nintendo's system hasn't changed that. but friend codes have not only deterred the ones that don't go to forums already,(many join game sites regardless of fc sharing) but the smaller size of the site means admins can monitor on site contacts for suspicious behavior.(something not possible with something as large as nwfc)
Plain and Simple. Yes FC's are bad, but its not completely bad with them.
Yeah you would, because not everyone buys the same games. Your shooter friends might well not be your racing friends. MKWii was better than Brawl. Conduit will probably be better than MKWii, but FCs are still a pig that serve no helpful purpose and actually endanger children in the process of making online more inconvenient that it was 10 years ago.
Yes I did read the comment above. But the MKWii solution is like putting lipstick on a pig. Once you're done, it's still a pig. Stop making excuses for the system and just join in calls for getting rid of it.
David wrote: (repeatedly) "It's still a cool game. It can still succeed."
Friend codes provide bait that kids want and seek out, and they DIRECTLY cause private, not public pm and instant chat communications that would NOT otherwise happen if Friend Codes couldn't exist. Friend Codes endanger children. Period.
"friend codes will destroy tons of the fun this game could have been"
sounds like an overreaction to me. and why do you act like I said friend codes were the best thing ever? I'm saying that they don't have to ruin the experience to the extent you say they will.
also, admins can see any private messages sent through those fc sites*, meaning they can look out for suspect behavior(not possible for nintendo because of nwfc's size) remember: very little on the internet is truly 'private' as you say.
*some sites also charge moderators with this task.
"Your shooter friends might not be your racing friends"
you still would have separate friend lists + option to auto add users from random matches + option to auto add from wii list. no problems here. your friends can indeed be lump'd into either separate lists or you could effectively make your wii address book your universal roster.
I'm not.
You are painting a picture that says Friend Codes aren't so bad. I simply maintain that they are. They aren't convenient and they do compromise safety. The best way to change that is to get rid of them and use a real lobby system with real parental controls. I suppose Nintendo could keep trying to reinvent the wheel, and hey, if they ever manage to make their wheels actually roll, I'll be cool with it. But it's been around 3 years since FC's were intro'd. You really think they're on the verge of making them functional for the purposes of a competitive FPS?
Half of the admins on the intarwebs are kids. Most aren't working hard towards kid safety, most of the rest wouldn't know how to, and on large messageboards where there are thousands and tens of thousands of pms per day, even if they wanted to, they couldn't police them all. To wit, not all messageboard software is set up to allow monitering of PMs. Certainly, once the conversation goes to ICQ or AIM, it's out of their hands.
Parents would not be happy, nor should they be, knowing the thin blue line that actually protects their kids aren't the supposedly super safe Friend Codes that they were told prevents them from having to actually pay attention and monitor a decent internal child protection system on a console that can be made Parent-friendly, but instead consist of total strangers with so much free time on their hands that they can admin a video game board. FC's drive kids outside a potentially controlled console environment into a virtually uncontrollable open environment. And Nintendo isn't telling parents that it's happening.
The fact remains that Friend Codes encourage direct communications outside the console system where parents aren't told to be wary of them that would not otherwise have happened. They endanger children. While simultaneously inconveniencing everyone.
Every new game still means new people to add. So why not just have 1 Friend Code—the Wii System code? I mean that's what you're hoping this will become right? So why do it without actually doing it? It'd still be inconvenient and awkward and worthy of scorn, but it'd be a nice step in the right direction from the absolute absurdity that is still the gold standard of Friend Codes.
I wasn't previously aware of the ability to auto-add from random races. What was the limit of friends on MKWii? 30? With such restrictions, seems like it would be better to be able to pick and choose who to send FC requests to than to auto-add people who might very well suck and who you really wouldn't want to play again. Plus, I have my doubts about Nintendo allowing that type of FC exchange when WiiSpeak is in the mix.
Still, if we're moving closer and closer and closer to a sane system, why not just institute one now? It isn't as if Nintendo doesn't have the resources to build one. One where we aren't numbers but names (I have enough numbers to remember already)? One where parents can have complete control over who their kids interact internally on the Wii and adults don't have to put up with gimped feature sets.
It doesn't force you to auto add everyone, you choose someone from the list after a race and it adds them without the need for codes. auto adding(for random) means the consoles enter the friend codes instead of players.
or you could just use your friend list as a universal one. also, not all games are limited to 30 codes.
and parents should know to be wary of any communication on the web.
I've been to a good deal of fc sites, (and even been set to monitor pms), and they provide the only chance for moderation of a system like this. I've been on live. it's completely unmoderated(due to massive size), completely open to adults who would like to lure kids in. it's worse than friend codes because it still has good enough bait to get a underage kid trying to talk to random strangers, you just skip the message board.(the only part that has even the slightest chance of being watched by mods) those that focus on it aren't nearly as large as nwfc or xba and are watched(the ones run by children usually lack any extra features to keep members vs. the competition)
in other words, the internet will always be dangerous, even more so without anything more then the absolutely worthless parental controls on live.(I encounter a lot of underage kids on there)
The conduit could use the system I described with wii speak, because children shouldn't have this game at all. plus they may also allow it in random on the grounds of a team based mode.
other games could use the predecessor to auto adding seen in mp:h or a variant of it. the wii would note people from your wii address book/people you've added manually in game vs. people added from random (aka the friends & rivals system) allowing only 'friendly chat'. and if nintendo implements an enhanced version of the system from mkwii(but expanded for all games) you wouldn't even need voice chat in most instances.
however, if there's one thing friend codes do right, it's keeping me from having to deal with the kind of twats populating LIVE.
The Conduit hasn't been rated yet, but it could end up with a T. There's some blood, but by and large, most of the enemies are aliens, and it isn't an issue. With that rating, there'd be plenty of teens playing.
I'll have to pull out my copy this week and try auto add out. Where is this list of players to choose from after the match? Is there an auto-add screen in settings or…?
What's the highest limit you've seen on Wii?
A decent online system would not only give you access to other adult players, it would allow you to block the twits, and 12 year olds who are practicing their cursing. I'd think Live! would have a decent blocking mechanism. Does it?
They should. But PCs are 1000 times harder to control than a closed console system. So if you're designing a safety system with parents in mind, that means not encouraging kids to flee to the PC/internet to get full functionality from their games. FCs do encourage that unnecessarily. Some parents wouldn't set up the parental settings anyway, but that doesn't change the fact that some would and aren't being given a chance or the information they need to know there's a serious security issue here. Nintendo's promised safety, and then compromised it.
The worst part of it is that Friend Codes actively discourage parental involvement. No technology is good enough to protect kids. They'll always find some loophole or another. But parental monitoring is vital and needs to be encouraged rather than discouraged.
Live is shat, every time I enter a game I can be sure of two things:
1. you can and will be called faggot by some kid who has no idea what that even means(which is odd considering the general love of teabagging in tb compatible games)
anyone who lands a few kills will likely hear 'f*ck you, cheating piece of shit'
It's why I dislike voice chat in non-friend matches, because you'll be more likely to meet these idiots in the more popular games.
and trust me, it's extremely doubtful that anyone actually bothers with parental controls. (when I said 'kid', I literally mean a minor)
You also have to remember that a friend code is basically a special type of numeric username, allowing many modifications to the system(likely leading to a cross between the current twat-free system of nwfc and LIVE)
bottom line: the fc system is more comparable to a baby than a pig. it can mature and grow, becoming smarter as it ages, and able to potty on it's own of course. :p
conduit friend code: 2407-2915-4964
Thanks John, but you'll have better luck at wiiunite.org. It's one of the best core Wii communities out there.
Conduit Friend Codes Thread at WiiUnite